"They are acting in what they believe is their own best interest."
Ok, then I have to ask you this question?
To me, IF these people CLAIM to be progressives and they believe in what Senator Clinton stood for AND are so angry at the party for betraying their principles....
Why vote and CAMPAIGN for McCain?
Why not Nader? Or Cynthia Mckinney?
At least THEY are espousing a progressive platform?
Voting and WORKING for McCain means one thing and I saw a very Truthful PUMA on Larry King say it:
"This is because of how Hillary was treated and we NEED to punish the Democratic party!"
THAT'S THE TRUTH!
This is Hillary rage, pure and simple.
They want to hurt Obama, hurt the Democratic party, because THEY are hurt.
They want Hillary as VP or the are going to vote for McCain?
They want Obama to lose, so Hillary can win in 2012.
To me, it's solopcism and narrcisim exemplified.
one answer for you would be to look at the reply by Blue Neproset. Perhaps if they saw something other then gloating and poor attitudes they might feel more like a reapproachmnet. McLames folks ARE courting them and just throwing them away is stupid on YOUR part (not BHO's, YOUR's) and possibly self-defeating, depending on how many you and your type try to purge from the party. you may be succesful beyond your wildest dreams, and help select McLame as the next prez...
No. Fuck that. Everytime someone reaches out an olive branch, it's smacked back. Obama can do no right, and neither can his supporters. And then, when Obama supporters have enough, you say "you're not being as nice as McCain's folks"? NO.
If Bush "courted" your vote, would you vote for him? Or would you be smart enough to look at the issues, look at the records, and see that you have a choice between electing 4 more years of Bush or the most progressive president this country has ever had.
I think, for most of these so called PUMAs, the answer it clear.
Actually if you watch the action on the Puma sites there are some very professional McCain supporters who swarm whenever anyone questions the group think, even by contemplating voting for a 3rd party. No! they scream, the strongest way to punish the Democrats is to vote for the Hero John McCain!
There is also a well organized effort to "punish" down ticket democrats who supported Obama.
Rupublicans may not have started it, but they are pouring a lot of resources into using it to keep the presidency & and take back congress. And they are doing very skillfully.
This is a high-quality, well organized rat-fuck, this years swiftboat.
Yup, dirty tricks, and the gullible and angry Pumas are bieng lead by the nose.
funny how they are supporting every negative stereotype about hysterical, petty, irrational women being unfit to lead.
Maybe next they cry to get their way.
Not feminism's greatest hour.
That is the saddest part of it all.
only took a glance at PUMApac.org to turn up this
Brooklynny:
"There was an article on yahoo news today about Kerry being challenged for the first time in years by Ed O'Reilly and a nice write-up regarding O'Reilly. I think this should be one of our main functions as PUMAs: to actively support, financially and otherwise, challengers to the Democratic traitors who sold us down the river. John Kerry is in the top ten in my book, along with Bill Richardson, Chris Dodd (CT - now implicated in Countrywide mortgage sweetheart deals, etc).
However, I am looking past "party" affiliation and judging future candidates based on their policies, integrity and commitment to democratic principles (small "d"). If some of them are labeled Republicans that no longer is a hindrance to me. Some moderate Republicans may in fact be more in line with my views than extreme conservative Democrats or, for that matter, extreme left-wing Democrats. The bottom line in my decisions is no longer "party." I have learned in this primary that I can no longer expect the D party to be different than the Republican party of the past 2 decades. I want no part of either. I think it's time to reevaluate our prior assumptions in terms of policy, position, etc. The world has changed dramatically in the last decade or so and I feel it's really necessary to take nothing for granted. New creative solutions to our present state of affairs, domestically and internationally, and this can't be done if we just continue with the present simply being an extension of the past Democratic mantra."
Experiment- post something suggesting that you are wavering and might vote for Obama for policy reasons. I've seen the swarm reaction dozens of times
He claimed that some PUMA members want to punish down ticket Democrats who supported Obama.
You asked him to back his claim up.
He provided a quote from a PUMA talking about punishing Democrats who supported Obama.
What's so hard to understand?
... there are some very professional McCain supporters who swarm whenever anyone questions the group think, even by contemplating voting for a 3rd party. No! they scream, the strongest way to punish the Democrats is to vote for the Hero John McCain!
And this:
Rupublicans ... are pouring a lot of resources into using it to keep the presidency & and take back congress. And they are doing very skillfully.
"Take back Congess"??? I think I'm going to have a case of the vapours! And this:
(I don't think the writer is familiar with the conventional meanings of "ratfuck" and "swiftboat", either.)
Of course, some PUMAs will take reprisals on down-ticket Dems. Some will take the opposite tack. Some will mix and match. Nothing that would raise eyebrows there, to anyone who understands the nature of the grievance.
Oh, we understand the nature of the grievance.
... and a Republican mole ... and a warmonger .... and what else? A cheese-eating surrender monkey?
After enough decades, name-calling has a limited effect on progressive activists. You're late to the game.
Didn't you compare people on this thread as "brown shirts" downthread?
The major drama of the 20th century was the rise and fall of regimes that thought they could eliminate dissent by eliminating the expression of dissent. Some of their ideological heirs are still here.
Some of their ideological heirs are still here.
Obama would be Hitler then, huh?
Cute.
Oh, and is this your quote?
"Fight" doesn't mean "hide". Chickenshits. ¡Si, soy PUMA! by RonK Seattle on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 02:15:25 PM EST
Chickenshits.
¡Si, soy PUMA! by RonK Seattle on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 02:15:25 PM EST
2 hours earlier you wrote this rant.
Spare me the drama and stop playing victim please.
It's not working and your full of shit pal.
... not brownshirts (but I have referred elsewhere to the brownshirt mentality of Obama fanatics).
BTW, is the comment you cite (and the comments it refers to) still hidden?
It's not surprising to see you deny the obvious racism the PUMA movement is top-heavy with. It's sad, but it's not surprising.
Your hate is a sickness that blinds you to the truth.
That's progress, I suppose, in a post-racial, post-partisan kind of way.
Have you heard the news? Obama's "movement" has already gone post-movement ... while the "defining moment" has been downsized to just a "moment"!
And that includes the racism behind the PUMA movement. Deny it all you like; we can all see that it's there.
The fact that you're okay with it speaks volumes about your character.
For me, BO08's decision to make a mockery of racism for political advantage was the straw that broke the camel's back. It's what convinced me he's unfit to hold office. ANY office. Ever.
But it's water over the dam now. From Obama's day forward, accusations like yours -- true OR false -- are laughing stock.
You continue to throw out non-sequiturs, trying your best to avoid the subject. It's really getting pathetic.
The topic at hand is the racism at the heart of the PUMA movement. Either address the topic at hand or crawl back under your bridge.
Check out the irrational PUMA trying to pretend they have a real grievance. You sound like the spokesman for the People's front of Judea.
resourses
"Dems4McCain.info is also registered in a RED State, a very funky red state..... Arizona! McCain's home state! Ans what's even more astounding is:
clintondems.com,
hireheels.com,
gopumaparty.com
chicagoagainstobama.com
stop-obama.org
hillaryclintonforum.net- are all as well! They are all registered and launched in ARIZONA."
http://yestodemocracy.org/page/2/
... but willing to believe almost anything.
... in the past couple days postings.
And if I understand you correctly, you have been trolling the site and impersonating a PUMA supporter?
Reading
I find the workings of insanity, group think, and rovian manipulation fascinating.
I'm trying to spot which cutsie PUMA name is Karl himself. It is fun.
It's difficult for PUMA trolls to understand that we aren't doing the same thing. They want to believe that to justify their own trolling.
Personally, I like knowing what my enemies are up to. So long as I know it's not too effective, I'm not bothered. But I do get upset about the casual associations of Obama (and supporters) to: the holocaust ethnic cleansing Anne Frank The Gestapo Nazis and their ovens
They must be pretty unbalanced people if they really believe that's true. And if they don't then they're merely completely insensitive and callous.
At this point I don't really see how they can still be called progressive Democrats and PUMA's at the same time. PUMA isn't just about not voting for Obama, it's about voting against anyone within the Democratic party who backed Obama initially or even chose to back him later.
Do you realize how many good, progressive Democrats they would like to banish with their mad, self-aggrandizing scheme? They are working against the party as a whole not just Obama.
It's an excessive, futile waste of energy that could be put to use for the good of all, rather than the vanity of a few.
they aren't interested in rapproachment. They're just trying to avenge a white woman who was dishonored by a black man. No noose this time around but the motivation is the same.
Oh goody! Racism and sexism all rolled up into one! An equal opportunity offender.
pointing out the PUMA crowd's mob mentality and racial resentment is neither racist nor sexist.
And Kobe still sucks.
mojo for basketball wisdom
You'll all be loving Kobe when he wins us the gold medal in Beijing.
And you know I love Laker-Haters! Every word of disdain just proves how good my team is.
a Kobe hater.
Kobe is a Laker for life. Sounds like you'll be a Lakers-hater for another decade or so.
Unless he throws another hissy fit and Buss and Kupchak finally tire of his diva antics.
His "hissy fit" was the best thing for my team. It got Kupcheck worried and working hard, and got Buss to cut loose with the $$ . I am very pleased with Kobe's GM prowess. There were actually only one or two days last summer when he said anything negative about the Lakers to the media. But the sportswriters wrote stories about it for over a month. I found it hilarious that they had so little to write about that they kept rehashing the same story for so long.
Pointing out their mentality may not be racist or sexist, but your choice of words certainly was.
and explain precisely what was racist/sexist.
Your choice of words.
not persuasive.
How could anyone who lived through the Democratic primaries really believe that your choice of words wasn't sexist and racist?
You can always use the "primary test" (like the "grandma test" for profanity, but this one is for racist and sexist language): If Geraldine Ferraro, Rev. Wright, Bill Clinton, or Michelle Obama said it, would it be considered racist or sexist? If so, then it doesn't pass the test and probably shouldn't be said in public.
if it's obviously racist and sexist, you should be able to explain why without resorting to bizarre counterfactuals about how it "would be considered" (by whom?) if someone else had said it. And yet several comments later you still can't explain what exactly it is that offends you.
You've responded to me with both "Dumb" and "Dopey comment". You're being uncivil and I will troll rate you if you continue this.
And stop pretending to be so dense. You chose inflammatory language for a purpose, and got the response you asked for. Congratulations!
I wasn't calling you a name. I was describing your comments. You may be a genius, but your comments were terrible.
I never said my word choice wasn't inflammatory. It just wasn't racist or sexist.
Troll-rate away. I don't really care about troll ratings.
Is that a staement about you, or your comment?
If you really think there's a big difference between making racist/sexist comments and intentionally making inflammatory comments based on race and gender, then you have a lot to learn about prejudice and discrimination. Making comments like that only furthers racial/gender stereotypes, which feed into people's prejudices, which then give them an "excuse" for racist/sexist/whatever-ist attitudes and behavior.
It was an assinine statement designed to fan the sexist/racist flames. You could have just admitted that you were being an ass instead of feigning innocence. You may think you're clever, but you're not fooling me.
though judging by the rest I'm guessing you think I'm asinine personally as well.
So comments about race and gender that are "inflammatory" are bad irrespective of whether they are true, simply because people who are already racist/sexist may use them as a reason to continue to be racist/sexist? How PC of you.
I find the notion that prejudiced people need inflammtory blog comments to fuel their prejudices is rather asinine, myself, as is the idea that we should modify our speech so as not to offend people who are already prejudiced.
a hide rate from the leader of the lynch mob.
Gloating and poor attitudes?
They are seeing what they WANT to see?
Did you REALLY see all that much gloating here?
And, what is with this "you and your type try to purge from the party."
WE are PURGING THEM FROM THE PARTY?
Look, they left voluntarily. Or they set up these demands (Hillary is VP or I vote for McCain) that may or may not be accomplished.
You have seen TONS of folks stating "Hillary SHOULD be put in charge of the Health Care bill" or have a leading role in the Obama admin on this website.
Hell, I don't mind her as VP, but after seeing him perform, Wes Clark is now my first choice.
So, this "We purged them from the party" is again this Victimhood they have wrapped themselves in IMHO.
And, what can we REALLY do to reach out to them?
I feel, if Obama did a week long:
"OH MY GOD, IT WAS SO FRICKING SEXIST, I DIDN'T DESERVE TO WIN" world tour, the Harriets, Texas Darlin's and Alegres of the world would STILL say not enough.
Even if Obama stepped aside and handed Hillary the nomination it wouldn't be enough for them. They would still complain. They are filled with bile and it has soured their whole outlook.
And hence, their whole movement rots from the core.
You need to take a deep breath, son.
